Satanism and Witchcraft Before Lavey: He didn't start anything, he ruined it

Comrades, (and some others that might want to know these 2 cents worth of a bit of history). If you don't find it of interest (those of you on the bcc) then just delete it. It's about BEFORE LaVey showed up - how things really were. About what HIS effect did.

OK, I was trying to avoid typing this, but I'm going to - and please people take it to heart because I'm old, I was there, and I remember this very well from inside of the Hermetic culture (by schooling, not by ethnicity) and from being very active in the alternate culture and "RIGHTS" movements.

PRIOR to LaVey there were various Wiccan groups, and other such things, all kinds of Hermetic lodges and Gnostic ones - even whole schools such as the grammar school I went to. Not just the Crowley types, but MANY types not as well known. I'm talking about the real thing, people who had this in their families, some people who broadened it for the outside world. Above all, there was DARK SHADOWS, the most popular soap opera. Remember ANGELIQUE? She was a witch; she even went to hell and came back from hell. She used to call on the dark forces all the time - this was so normal that no one flinched a brow over it. She called on BEELZEBUB to vanquish ghosts! This was out in the open - THAT MUCH. Most popular soap opera. BACK THEN. Remember the show "Bewitched"? Even the Witches Anthem had the witches singing "Off we go, into the Dark Black yonder" and they were always putting evil hexes on Darrin. NO BIG DEAL. Everyone loved the show. "Addams Family" or the show with Morticia on it, they do a spell "Come on Satan, We are Waitin." No big deal. Satan was a name that got dropped here or there, casually, in connection with ANY magic. Witches were known for MAGIC. Even the Arabian demonology came into play with the "I dream of Jeannie" show - and on that show there were also the Djinn (demons, folks!) The Djinn were cool. It was ACCEPTED: that is the point. They, the occultists who were coming out in the open, did NOT consider themselves SAINTS more holy than the Christian ones - they were WITCHES and WARLOCKS. They were NOT reacting to a right-wing intolerant fascist philosophy of anyone named Anton because he was not on the scene or part of it back then. Now, there was also DENNIS WHEATLEY and at least one of his movies became a cult classic ("The Devil's Bride," with Christopher Lee, based on the short story "The Devil Rides Out") - and Wiccans ALL saw it. His books predate LaVey by far. Another of his famous books was called "The Satanist." A whole large novel. There were also MANY OTHER books about Wiccans, novels, stories, and "real experience" type books - they did NOT have the horrible knee jerk reaction to the word Satan or anything dark side at this time AT ALL. In fact, in the tale of Aradia, they have Satan or Lucifer (interchangeable) as the protector of the Witches and Gypsies. That's 100 years before LaVey at least. Black magic was as natural as white magic. Even on the "Buffy Vampire Slayer" show, the witch in the gang uses Darkest Magic to help to fight "Glory - the god from the alien dimension." Once she even called on Satan in a spell. As with the novels and shows, these things were naturally MERGED. Hexes were normal. Hexen is a word that even means "witch." So were love spells. It was no big deal. MANY ethnics wore the horned hand around their necks as a symbol of good luck. You hardly see it anymore. EVERYONE knew that the Devil, Satan, was PAN - everyone KNEW this - like everyone knows that grass is green. Moreover, calling Pan "Satan" was NO BIG DEAL. It was in novels even - magic was intricately tied up with the Devil as a popular figure. Carducci's Poem "Hymn to Satan" way predates LaVey and it's clear there: in every hearth! His poem has a strongly Wiccan cast to it along with an Enlightenment cast. He was very much in tune with his times. Michelet's book "Satanism and Witchcraft" was THE authoritative book on this. Anyone with any doubts about Michelet's manner of telling the story of "what happened" had in their possession the book "The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology" by R. H. Robbins. This book gives copious and meticulous detail on the Witches and their trials and what was the in-general norm of the times back then. Anyone involved in the occult used to read both. Everyone had these books. Both of these books date way before LaVey. Familiars, demonic spirits, all that - it was par for the course - like having salt and pepper in your home. It was no big deal and things were GREAT. The tolerance movement was afoot at this time and this stuff was not just around, but it was coming out into the OPEN. Repeat - INTO THE OPEN.

And there were people who had the Baphomet Sigil, in the star with Hebrew letters or variations of this ON THEIR WALLS as plaques - and it was KNOWN TO BE DeMolay's old symbol. KNOWN - it was known so well it was like coffee sugar and milk. Everyone KNEW this. You can run into some very old timer white haired Masons that will STILL see that symbol and remark "ah, Demolay's old thing." STILL. Apparently they are so old that they forgot what happened. Or what they were told to do - including me personally. DENY DENY DENY DENY - erase ALL traces of it, annihilate it, get books from libraries and LOSE them - pay for them - they WONT be replaced - make it VANISH. Bury all traces.

In addition, the Wiccans then became fanatically obsessed with NOT being associated with Satan. Or "black" magic. Ptooey.

And why did this change happen? Because of the STUPID POISONOUS SHIT that Anton LaVey did - and Bonewitz might have details wrong, but HE WAS THERE, he is a PROFESSOR and he told the TRUTH, yeah, his details are wrong. Moreover, Aquino was not there when HE was there. And how did all that Nazi shit, that suffocating IRON HANDED RULES shit get associated with Satan-ISM? LaVey of course. You people have no concept of the AMOUNT of DAMAGE LaVey did to people, to the entire wonderful movement back then and to personal lives of people who HAD that Baphomet on their walls and had to take it down - when their neighbor's KIDS remembered seeing it - the trouble that caused for people, including for KIDS. People wanted to KILL LaVey for this. Anton LaVey was to the wonderful occult movement what Charlie Manson was to the wonderful peace/hippie movement: POISON. OK? Take off the rose colored glasses about this. Anton did NOT bring Satanism out into the open at all. Maybe you think that because they have claimed this enough times and because everyone ELSE gives you the backlash - they DENY any connection; and definitely because you never were in a city, or part of a tradition where it WAS in the open already. He DESTROYED it; he made it into something dictatorial - demanding that ALL pagans/Wiccans accept Satan just like Christians demand that you accept Jesus. It was AWFUL. Dennis Wheatley and other writers, especially Michelet, brought it into the open in a wonderful way. Louisa Bronte brought it into the open in a wonderful way. You people are just too young to know ANY of this; you were not affected by it. The Magus was for sale, the Goetia was for sale, all this was PART OF every Wiccan library back then - it was NO BIG DEAL. Demonic sigils could be seen here and there: it was NOT A PROBLEM. Demons were seen by the Wiccans in the old pagan sense, as daimones. However, the point is, it was NOT a big deal - there was no BACKLASH that you see today.

It's like LaVey just TOOK a symbol that people had and used, a symbol he knew NOTHING about. It was a symbol of triumph, a SECRET symbol of an entire nation and its founders, it meant liberty, equity and unity and it represented the BLOOD of countless people who had nothing to gain and everything to lose in fighting for an IDEA: FREEDOM from religious tyranny, FREEDOM from the Altar and Throne that existed in Europe. Egalitarianism in that it did not matter who you were or what you were from - you start from an equal chance for life, liberty and the pursuit of HAPPINESS. It meant UNITY. However, Anton had no fucking CLUE it meant this. He just TOOK IT and shit all over it with his "might is right" "smash the image of Jehova" BULLSHIT. He knew NOTHING of the FIVE angles or the real tradition at all - he invented FOUR crown princes in hell to invert the stupid Catholic four angels shit. His ranting primarily against the "herd" attracted the scum of humanity 99% of the time, failed men, losers, and wannabes. His "alien elite" bullshit just attracted the garbage out there - and his "mutual admiration" shit just reinforced the pipe dreams of these idiots. He CALLED OUT to the scum of the country, the inversionist Christians from lousy homes, abuse victims, whatever - broken fucked up people. He CALLED OUT to them 99%. The 1% eventually LEFT his organization seeing what was in it. He took Satanism away from the natural life-affirming reality that it was, the Satan that Michelet spoke so well about, and he thrust it as "SATAN-ISM" into ugliness like the Christians made in the dark ages, death pictures and KINKY fetish over torture and death like the Christians had in the Inquisition, rigid suffocating rules worse than the Christians have; HE DID this. 1% of it was the fun loving jokester, the carnival man - but never think he was not BITTER about it - and that bitterness shined through. In addition, that's what you have right now - 99% of the people claiming to be Satanists are GARBAGE. And what are we doing, trying to clean up the image? Metadromos just gets done at work (with Wiccans) explaining the Vedic concepts, how the Hebrews turned it around, all that - and along comes a "Satanist" into the shop making a COMPLETE ARROGANT ASS of himself starting an argument for the sake of arguing. So what's the use?

What is it you don't see? The man lived like a miserable monk in a house he allowed to get so broke down it was beyond repair, so filthy it was impossible to clean, and talked to fucking dolls (mannequins like in department stores - NOT robots). The man FORCED his wife (Diane) to wear nylon stocking and garter belts - and the most pathetic thing is she DID IT. Jesus H. Christ operates. How fucking UN-satanic can you get? In addition, the rules they invented for Grottos were as strict, if not STRICTER than anything Christian or Catholic I ever saw. NO ONE bows down to Catholic Priests or Nuns like that.

You think he brought Satanism out into the open? IT WAS ALREADY in the open along with the other magical things, Michelet's book was famous and it's STILL in print for so long. All LaVey did was create a situation where EVERYONE ELSE that really knew stuff, or who had real traditions - went out of their way to SEPARATE themselves from this Satan-ISM that came from LaVey. It created a situation where anyone from the occult had to be "ON GUARD" against these fucking cockroaches that came from the COS. EVERYONE had to - INCLUDING ME. And if and when we saw one of them? Like, at a job? We did ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to fuck them over, get rid of them - CLOSE DOORS to them. It was an action taken and oh yeah, there was a meeting, oaths sworn to FUCK OVER these people in any way possible, an act no matter how small, FUCK THEM OVER. Usually we checked the person out for maybe FIVE MINUTES to see first if he or she was an ASSHOLE. 99% of the time, he/she was - another one of those LaVey shitholes. Arrogant, ignorant as hell, overbearing assholes. They are SO recognizable - I even wrote an article for THEM when they show up. They have their little COS buzz words - very easy to recognize. "Equality and other buzz words" on the website. They are ARROGANT little ignoramuses - hateful people. STUPID people. Brendan had the opportunity to read every single Cloven Hoof ever printed - all at once. Garbage - all of it. The COS was filled with absolute KNOW NOTHINGS that didn't even know that Ishtar and Easter were related, didn't even know WHY 4/30 or 10/31 were WITCH holy days. Yeah, WITCH, pagan days. NOT Hebrew or Christian days. In addition, the rest was filled with the shit that leads to, and calls out to the Nazi type personality. ALL of it. When you see it all at once, it's very clear.

He did not bring ANYTHING into the open. He made people that knew things, people who were from real traditions involving Satanism, HIDE MORE. He made it so NO ONE says "Satan" anymore; he made it a suffocating thing that has to be ON GUARD all the time. THAT is what HE REALLY DID. I used to hear the word Satan all the time as a kid, in story's about the old days, even in ceremonies. I still own a plastic kid's toy with DEVIL HEAD on it. I still have DOLL HEADS from rubber dolls 1950's era of demon babies, horns and all. I STILL HAVE this stuff. It was no big deal. Then things CHANGED. It was as if the word became forbidden; it no longer meant what it meant. I don't mean Sat or Tan. I mean SATAN, like PAN. NO ONE used it anymore. It became the official dogma of everyone to immediately launch into the speech: "Satanism is a Christian thing, it's purely Christian. In order to believe in Satan, you have to believe in the Christian God." That's the official speech, more or less. RECOGNIZE IT? THAT is what LaVey did. And you think that millions of people reciting this rehearsed speech can be changed? They do it because of LAVEY. In addition, they are NOT going to budge on it.

If there had been no COS, you'd have seen millions of Wiccans today ALSO freely using Satan and demonic ideas and it would have been proper since Wiccans MOST DEFINITELY DID ally with the enemy of their persecutors in the middle ages: SATAN. Just like the Iraq people think the USA and Bush are evil - these medieval peasants thought Jesus and the church were evil - and since Satan was their enemy of their enemy - they went for it - like Michelet said. EVERYONE read Michelet's book. However, since LaVey and his rotten shit had continue to go on, not quietly, but in a shit-disturbing manner, Michelet's book is hard to find even in Witch stores now. Even Gnostics, you'd be hard pressed to find a generational Gnostic group that TELLS YOU that Lucifer is their god now - because of LAVEY they have SHUT UP and gone into HIDING.

So enough already. I WAS THERE when this shit happened. I REMEMBER the plaques coming down off walls. I remember the CHANGE.

The second stage of LaVey's poison was his DOCTRINAIRE atheism - always a fucking chore to explain since he had a CHURCH - of SATAN. Yah, atheism, eh? Ha ha. "Lucifer Rising" has enough to say and document about the final stage of the LaVey poison: the fascist Nazi shit all in it. And now what is it? Just a bunch of non-famous people doing "outrageous" things for show? COS Rev. Leyba cutting himself to ribbons and having a Baphomet cut into his back, bleeding all over the stage, and then someone pees on him on stage? OH, LIKE THE INQUISITION? Like the Christian monks that used to flagellate each other? This is NOT Satanism. Oh, does that make Evil Knieval a Satanist too? How about people in the X-games? Please.

You have no concept, no idea of the DAMAGE he did. I DO. I REMEMBER. When two Masons, 33rd degree asked me to give THEM the Roots stuff, I was furious. I swore to do it before I knew who was supposed to get it. TO THEM? GIVE IT TO THEM? Maybe it was an attempt to get something POSITIVE into the only officially satanic org using the name Satan - because so many kids were getting into it for the wrong reasons? The TOS was out there, but "Set stuff" was not attracting the kids and it was not as available as the LaVey shit. The OTO doesn't dare say Satan: not anymore. However, I REMEMBER when a cult of Crowley types were very comfortable with the Satan word. Give it to them to try to give them something real? Something positive? Something with a real direction? I don't know. That, along with everything else involving the COS, was a FAILURE. I can't say I didn't HELP IT fail. OH, I did. I HATED them for all of this stuff that happened.

I remember a time when free flowing conversations happened with Witches and Warlocks of all kinds. I remember a club in the village (NYC) when "Morlock the Warlock" was always to be seen at his table with a black candle - and along with him where all kinds of witches in white clothing or robes. He was a "demonolator" and it was 100% accepted. Heartfelt conversation happened and things were above all: FUN. After LaVey showed up, everything was STIFLED and SUFFOCATED, everyone was on guard. Morlock no longer had black candles. He used red ones now. He no longer wore his beautiful magicians robe. IT SUCKED. OK? That is LaVey's contribution. It's what none of you even realize happened. I was THERE in the thick of it where things really were happening and where things set movements going.

I put out the Dark Tradition - it is the PUREST form of this and it is not some stupid invention - it's a real tradition - for those of you that wish to KNOW the Darkness, really know it. The rest can go fuck themselves. The pentacle tradition, what each line, angle all that means, we sell in an article "Tantra, Vajrayana and Pythagoreanism." HO, notice I did NOT call it SATANISM for the title? Heh. But it is; it's explained inside the article. In that article I explain what the things in the star mean, really mean, always meant, and I show correspondences with the same IDEAS in other cultures by giving the words for it all. It's a long article. Those who want to know this - can buy it. Considering what's in there, it's pretty damned cheap. Considering how this has been deliberately HIDDEN, made to vanish, covered up - it's worth every damned penny. Some of it, in very condensed format, is in the free article "Which KINDS of Satanism" on our website.

For hell's sakes, even the GNOSTICS had a tradition of calling the Pope the anti-Christ. Even THEY considered Jehova to be the devil and they worshiped LUCIFER. But do Gnostics say this TODAY since LaVey reared his ugly head with his bullshit? I mean real Gnostics. I don't hear them saying ANYTHING anymore. They were SILENCED. Their words went out the window with Morlock's black candles.

Yeah, Gilmore and Barton want to "TM" the name LaVey. But they also want to "TM" Satan - and they can NOT be allowed to do this. If they are allowed to do this, then Satan will become for ALL of us, exactly what it became to the Christians and to the many Wiccans: the deity of a HATE CULT. Period. This is NOT up for debate. I know what I know and I know it from INSIDE a real tradition. It's bad enough that the S word is associated with ALL of that now - and that usually, if a person claiming to be a Satanist shows up, 99% of the time, he's a stupid, arrogant, asshole. It's as if, due to LaVey, a person claiming to be a Satanist feels that he HAS TO be as arrogant and malicious as he can be. All of this is due to LaVey's effects. It did NOT used to be that way - a Warlock was ASSUMED to own Satan and no one thought a thing of it, including other witches and occultists. That's all gone due to Anton LaVey. Wiccans today even ignore the superb Michelet due to LaVey.

I have NO respect for a man who makes a Church....... of Satan..... Because he hates his own Jewishness, he hates his own looks, and wants to sleep with the blonde Anglos. NONE. Self-hate never led to ANYTHING good. As you can see now. Will - it calls out to Will - and the affects of what grows on a barren tree are here for all to see: ROTTEN FRUIT.

Kaiden said, "Don't fall for the line that 'one Anton L is as good as another Anton L.'" Whatever that means. How about this: One Anton L is as BAD as another. How about NO Anton L. How about MICHELET if you want to go western tradition. How about the western hermetic tradition on the pentacle? That's satanic. It used to be OPENLY REFERRED TO as that - before that became a forbidden thing to say. How about the Goetia if you want to go demonic? At least that's traditional. And I wish you knew how much openness and FUN there was back then before LaVey ruined it all.


> To: > From: Adept T <> > Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:56:29 +0200 > Reply-To: this message >

SUBJECT > Anton LaVey and how it was before:

Very good views on the subject. I call that a release. > (And the silence that fell after that was total) > > -Do what thou wilt- > > T >

Subject: RE: Anton LaVey How it Was before.

Yes, it was upsetting having to type it. And yes, NO ONE commented. Everyone is so in the HABIT of giving the man the ubiquitous praise "but he made it open" blah blah. NO, HE DID NOT do that at all - NOT AT ALL. I don't know exactly what it was, but a large part of it was his HATEFUL trashing of everything NOT Anton, not his own. As if he DEMANDED that everyone accept Satan. Or rather accept HIM.

I can REMEMBER Wiccans with their Levy Baphomets (seated image, Goat of Mendes) referring to it as Satan nonchalantly - it was NO big deal at all. It was pure Michelet. Even Robert Graves in his White Goddess focuses on the DARK side and says HE feels the need to give the Devil the praise for the way he was "shown the keys" to this information he wrote. I can remember the openness, the easygoing nature of it all. That was back in 1963, 1964, even 1969 I can remember it was pretty open and friendly. I usually just make a short synthetic statement: COS IS POISON. Now I explained it and it was upsetting to have to get into all that, to REMEMBER all that. How it changed. Burying ALL information about the Theurgies, the early (two words) Free Masons - the Arcadian cults - all of that. Just like there are Hassids that everyone here knows about NOW - back then no one knew what a Hassid was. It's a type of Jew. But NO ONE knew anything about them. HUGE communities of them. Same with the Amish. This was the freedom of religion country - so everything was HERE. Gnostics of all stripes. Luciferians they were - WHOLE SOCIETIES even. country clubs even. godDAMN it was SO fucking open if you knew what to look for or were part of it. Ophites with their Kaballa societies. All of it. Then it ALL went underground - ALL of it. The Wiccans are the only ones who did NOT go underground, but they rehearsed their anti-Satan speech so well that it's become part of their creed now. All due to LAVEY. ALL of it.

I can't even convey the ENORMITY of the damage that was done. Imagine with gays - everyone knows what gay is. Everyone knows what gay community, gay pride, gay rights, is - everyone knows what a Lesbian is or a transvestite. IMAGINE a time when no one knew what this was - only very few. It was ALL hidden away (in a closet!) - all impossible to find. A young girl realizing she's gay had NOWHERE to turn, NO ONE to find - NO community, no phone call for help or advice, NOTHING. IMAGINE it. That also came out into the open during the 1960's. And it was a wonderful thing - it was SO MUCH FUN. Imagine if something happened where all that gay stuff had to HIDE all over again. It would take another Anton of the gay community to do something like that - coincidentally another guy named Levy almost ruined it for the gays by threatening to poison blood banks with aids blood. PUBLICLY he did this. What the fuck. Now there is a BIG backlash against the gay lifestyle again. But it's not THAT bad.

I notice the silence - yet I speak the TRUTH. Of course it was NY and California where all these wonderful things happened. But still, NJ was a bastion of alternate stuff - and I mean HUGE lodges not just little orgs. Even the MOOSE club - oh it's a club where you hang out, dance, but you have to be initiated and indoctrinated. They guarantee you retirement home, and if you die and have orphaned kids, they are guaranteed a CLASSICAL education. Classical education is what I had: I learned ALL the western mystery tradition in grammar school - that's a classical education.

Anton made Satan clearly into the "anti Christian" thing and only that, he made it so that people EXPECT Satanists to be complete arrogant assholes. He made it so that Satanists are the ENEMIES of Wiccans. THAT is what he did. I can't imagine a Witch or Warlock without Satan and the demons. It's unheard of. But that's how it is now. I also can't imagine a Satanist being an anti-Christian and only that - but that's me.

They can HAVE their fucking LaVey. But we TOOK BACK Satan and that's that. We have Michelet - that's 100 times better than LaVey's SHIT. I even showed you Isobel Gowdie, her song.

To: group

Subject: [satanicreds] Re: A little History/before LaVey/CoS

Someone suggested posting this to alt.satanism, well, I mentioned some of it in a post to a LaVey spaniel where he is going on trying pathetically to "DEFINE" what is or is not a Satanist. In this case, he's claiming Egan is a Wiccan, not a Satanist. I don't regard the COSsers as Satanists of ANY kind - for the most part.

No, fuck alt.satanism, as Gerber said, the Cossers and their allies are COMPELLED to make flame wars - and tried to start up another with slanders. Then can ONLY use slander. I can use searing hot truth. If I posted that, it would be appearing to start a flame war. It's on our website - OUR STANCE.

It wasn't in 1966 that things changed. It was later on. Slowly but loudly, LaVey's scathing contempt for anything Wiccan got more and more well known. Just read Barton's essay on Wiccans and her ceremony to purge them of the goddess stuff - that's a clue: Blanche on Wicca. And the letter Phil wrote trashing her stupidity (LaVey read that and made Phil into a Magister - heh). Anton even mocked out that Wiccans did rituals skyclad (naked). It's ALL in the COS literature and in the vocal shit they said. He hated them because they rejected him - and they rejected him because, as any glance of old Cloven Hoofs would prove, he was a COMPLETE know nothing. COMPLETE. Any glance at the Satanic Bible shows the man never even read Robert Graves - he knew NOTHING of magical traditions. Remember, MICHELET was popular back then. Satanism and Witchcraft were intricately tied together, even as COMMON folk knowledge.

No, Wiccans often wore the star 1 point up, but more often they could be seen with the whole Sabbatic Goat medallions, or images of Pan, in fact a Wiccan gave Phil's brother a Pan medallion ages ago - the whole Pan. They had stuff like that, they had the star and the moon (like the Moslems use) and things like that. They has astrological symbols, etc. The only people who wore the star 2 points up were EASTERN STAR - Wiccans didn't get that because it was just not that easy to GET that kind of jewelry - Masons made it. And as I said, it was Eastern Star - it's on buildings all over to be seen too. They'd not want to be confused with Masons - and it could cause problems. The males all called themselves warlocks; they were all considered sorcerers/esses. It was NO big deal. But this, I'll paste the entire thing from COS files in here, is par for the course, the kind of hateful ranting that LaVey and his idiots used to lash out at all Wiccans. Oh, they know him alright - as a con man, a carnival act, and a phony. And they agree with theologians that the Satan of the COS is a pure inversionist Christian idea - even IF you use it as a symbol.

As I said, there were hundreds, thousands, of popular novels about this and Satan was always in them or some incubus figure. Usually romantic stuff.

As I said on the McVeigh thread to someone, and I told it to Barton too along when the letter Phil sent (see url above) trashing her. The Hard Left had a definite agenda and it definitely included religious RIGHTS for alternate groups - New Age was only starting in the 1970's. Pagans, New Age and Wicca got LINKED to the American Indian movement stuff, gay rights, all that - in a POLITICAL sense. Well? Anton LaVey was a god damned fascist and Nazi wannabe. So he REALLY got excluded from all of it. He was silently, and then outspokenly declared ANATHEMA - and if you think that's no big deal - think of how BROKE he was when he died. People with clout have MONEY - and what they declare anathema has real meaning in the real world. So then, with the nasty shit coming from LaVey's mouth against the Wiccans, combined with the powerful POLITICAL agenda of the hard left back then, things ended up the way they are now. The "S" word is OUT. All because of him, his STUPID ignorance and his STUPID fascism. And what the hell are we all doing now? Trying ONCE AGAIN to start from the 1960's and present Satanism as part of a legitimate LHP tradition? Good luck.

The most noble compliment any people ever gave me was "Thank you for the Renaissance package. For once, it made me see Satanism as something beautiful." Damn right. Christianity with its stoical, bland, ironhanded rules, with its dark dismal ages and ignorance, with its sex/death imagery and philosophy, is UGLY. LaVey, think realistically about it without rose colored glasses on, was a FUCKING NUT: he talked to plastic mannequins, he let his property fall to shit like some inner city ghetto dweller, and he liked to have people go to the damned bathroom on him. For HELL's sakes man. Zeena tried to expose the myth and she's his DAUGHTER.

LaVey did NOT make anything above ground. He made his POISON above ground and made real Satanism and real Satanic people GO UNDERGROUND: that is what HE DID.

Younger people should KNOW this.

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